Dizzy 1: `Talkthrough`

Stuck making the potion? Lost in land of Khatmandu?
DCT
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Re: SnTrooper / Re: EgoTrip

Postby DCT » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:30 pm

I see that, I can't really see any where to use the magnet in that room, not unless you can get under the trapdoor. Hence why I suggested using the pick on one of those rocks, more likely the smaller one on top.

Swapped wasn't quite what I was suggesting, that would put the diamond at the top of the crystal mountain where the word box still speaks of the green eye of the yellow god. On the matter of complexity, puzzles in this game vary wildly in that regard, sometimes you have to hike miles with objects while other times there use is right there. This seems to have no bearing on how far into the game you are.

Other objects that would do better in other positions include the pick which could be replaced with the graveyard key, or the oil (for maintaining the labyrinth). This would remove the problem cause by the fact you can use the dry ice to bypass what your supposed to need the dry ice for. You would have to enter the labyrinth, you would have to get the key/oil otherwise you would blow the game.

As I said I don't entirely trust NOOTRAC to give away all the games secrets. I would imagine, for example, that if you use it at the start of the game and go to, say, the crazy labyrinth all the gate will be intact. If you do it after you've cleared the labyrinth they won't. Who knows what other secrets the game may reveal if you perform the right action which the map hides from you? The fact that the text box is solid is telling though. Is that more solid that the one in the crazy labyrinth which you can drop into if you can get past the troll skeleton?

It might be more exciting but it's much less realistic. Why would someone's grave have a strange trapdoor and further passages leading off it?

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Postby EgoTrip » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:51 pm

Since when were cartoons realistic? It was billed as the Ultimate Cartoon Adventure so expecting realism is like expecting the Coyote to catch the Road Runner.

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Re: EgoTrip

Postby DCT » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:11 pm

Ah, yes the title, I get back to that presently. (I hope)

Obviously I wasn't referring to the primary reality of cartoon logic (although if Dizzy walks off a ledge he will fall without having to look down to confirm he's walked off a ledge).

The point is it simply invites questions without answers forthcoming, like this one:

What's 8-bit?

And why does Nintendo seem to manage it so much better than Spectrum, Commodore or Alan Michael Sugar Trading does?

The Legend Of Zelda is an 8-bit game, it seems much richer in detail than this one, somehow they seem to have made the memory go much, much further and I'm not quite sure how. Compromising on graphics might be one factor but I struggle to see it as the only one.

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Postby frogandhat » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:31 pm

DCT - The amount of memory on 8-bit computers was hardware dependent. the same as today. Home PC's had a built in amount of usable memory, for example either 9K or 41K for the Spectrum (7K was used for the screen memory). Then the graphical quality on some systems could be selected depending on how many colours you wanted / how high resolution you wanted. For example, in one 8 bit byte, you could describe 8 pixels in 2 colours (i.e. each bit is one pixel, black (0) or white (1)) or you could describe 1 pixel as one of 256 colours, so with a given amount of memory allocated to the screen, you can have 2 very different looking screens. (There were graphical modes between these extremes as well of course, e.g. 2 pixels in 16 colours, but the Spectrum had no such graphical modes, the resolution was set to 256x192 pixels and then each 8x8 character block had one byte to describe the colour - 3 bit colour x2 (8 colours) each for 'on' and 'off', 1 bit for 'bright' and one bit for 'flash' - hence the famous issue of colour clash)
On a console, the memory was held on the cartridge, so could vary from game to game, plus any 'load times' to access more memory from the cart would be negligible, so games could look (and be) bigger. On home computers, you had to load in more data from a tape into the memory which was slow and a pain (for example Gauntlet on the Spectrum loaded, I think from memory, 4 levels at a time, so you had to keep starting and stopping the tape!)
As for what's 8-bit - this is the size of the byte that the CPU could deal with at a time, i.e. a number between 0 and 255 decimal. The more bits you could load in, the more complex the instruction could be ad the quicker the computer can be - for example, to load a value into a register on an 8 bit, you would send the instruction to load the register in one byte, then the next byte would be the value, thus the instruction takes 2 clock cycles to load, whereas if you had a 16-bit CPU, you could process the same instruction in only one clock cycle.
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DCT
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Re: frogandhat

Postby DCT » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Thanks for that I think I may have to read, read and read it and to unpick it but in short 8 bit does not equal the full memory capacity of the game. Which leaves me wondering if Dizzy could have been a bigger, if slower game. Going off Spellbound I'd say 'yes' but going off other tricks I know they played such as spreading Crystal Kingdom across two Amiga discs I can't be sure.

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Postby frogandhat » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:30 pm

DCT - the fact that a CPU is 8-bit or 16-bit doesn't directly relate to the memory of the system the CPU is in, except in as much as higher bit CPUs could usually address more memory - for example the Z80 CPU in the Spectrum was an 8 bit PC and could only address 64K (16-bit address) - 16K was ROM, leaving the 48K maximum RAM (but they did produce the 16K RAM version as well for about £50 less, RAM was expensive in those days!) The 128K Spectrum could still only address 64K and paged in and out the extra memory as required.
The speed of the game and the size are pretty much unrelated (unless the programmer used a lot of compression in his code that then had to be uncompressed on the fly whilst the program was running), but back in those days, CPUs were pretty slow (in comparison to today) so you didn't really have any spare clock cycles to play with, so that was an unusual state of events. But I don't think Dizzy needed to be any bigger, I think that it is about the right size, plenty of gameplay and not too much walking for hours on end to get from a to b (I remember one game on the Spectrum, I can't remember the name of it, but it's selling point was that it had a ridiculous number of locations - hundreds if not thousands - but it was an incredibly tedious game as there was nothing you could do in 99% of the locations)
And don't forget, when it was released it was only £1.99, so I thought it was excellent value for money!
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Re: frogandhat

Postby DCT » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:33 pm

The technical stuff continues to go over my head. My main point continues to be the Oliver Twins complaining about the memory.

So far we have a horseshoe magnet which seems to be a red herring which I suppose is fine if that's true. But we also have a location called The Secret Caves, which is so secret it can be seen but no one has ever solved whatever puzzle should be there to gain access to it... and it does look like there should be a puzzle.

I'm pretty sure 1.99 in 1987 was worth more than 1.99 today. Although I get that it doesn't seem that it can be much more.

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Scene 33 (Scene 44a): Splat The Bat - Revisited.

Postby DCT » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:30 pm

Having got the mine we return to it's probable source the mine for a bit of a long shot, though not requiring it. Instead we're going to do another experiment with the ever discouraging horseshoe magnet. The aim here is to get Dizzy to stand in the location where you had to jump to get the platform to fall and then stand on said platform and use the horseshoe magnet while jumping above it. The idea here being to attract the platform back to it's original location. Obviously it's a long shot but in case it works you may want to leave the clove of garlic on the platform before you jump if you want to kill the last bat. Otherwise the chances are you won't be able to go back and get it. If this actually works please tell me so I'll know whether or not Dizzy can continue to the right.

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Postby EgoTrip » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:29 pm

Dizzy cannot continue to the right, that area is inaccessible. NOOTRAC just takes you onto a blank screen.

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Re: EgoTrip

Postby DCT » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:23 pm

I thought I seen it done with NOOTRAC it takes you to a screen with a bat and an extra a then a wall into a Dizzy 'warp zone' (well what else would you call them. I'm hoping you've at least tested the theory before telling me this.