I'm quite interested in Delta's Dizzy Legends, and I was wondering how he did it and could you use the same idea in an isometric veiw?
16 posts
i'm going out in a moment, but will try to reply in full to this later on tonight. :smile:
no hurry :smile:
A friend has a really good idea for a game with this view or even top down, I think I know enough of the basics to get the ball rolling, it just seems the easiest way to get a 3D feel and still use DizzyAGE :wink:
A friend has a really good idea for a game with this view or even top down, I think I know enough of the basics to get the ball rolling, it just seems the easiest way to get a 3D feel and still use DizzyAGE :wink:
right, it all depends on what you mean by 'isometric'.
if you mean as is the style used in Valhalla 3: The Fortress of Eve (below), then yes that's possible.
http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/screenshots/full/valhalla_and_the_fortress_of_eve_06.png
http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/screenshots/full/valhalla_and_the_fortress_of_eve_05.png
if however you mean the style used in the likes of Populus (below - sorry, couldn't think of a better example), then no you can't.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Amiga_Populous.png
the reason for this is that the game 'area' has to stay inside a square or rectangular box. it can be any size, as long as it's rectangular. it cannot be diamond-shaped, which rules out the 'populus' style.
The Valhalla 3 style is basically a variation on the top-down style, while allowing it to look more 3Dish. It uses the same type of engine as a top-down game would, just with graphics that make it look sort-of isometric.
if you wanted this style then you could simply adapt the Dizzy Legends: TLoD game pak for your own use.
regarding how i did it, that's a very broad question, and i'll try to answer it as broadly as possible. If you'd like more detail on any of the elements, please ask.
There are a few things here. Firstly, there is a text file in the game folder (when unpaked), that gives a brief lowdown on every new or changed function in the game, compared to the default DizzyAGE game. It won't tell you in detail what each one does or how it does it, but it's a good place to note any changes if you're at all familiar with the DizzyAGE default template.
Secondly, you can break down what has been done differently in TLoD into a few parts. These are basically:
Movement: includes getting him to walk up and down, dealing with the collision detection, turning, etc etc.
Speech: this includes all the code necessary to get him to talk at various points, and also dealing with the dialogue across the bottom of the screen.
Inventory: the inventory is changed from menu-based to HUD-based, and changed to keep gaps in the inventory when you drop items, rather than moving the item below into that space. I suspect the inventory would be less of an issue for you.
Object detection: changes the object detection code from checking behind the character (as in normal Dizzy games), to checking directly in front of the character instead. The code is also adapted and used for the 'examine' function.
Basically the movement part is the key. once i'd managed to get him moving up and down (and colliding properly), stopping the 'gravity' effect, it felt like a lot had been done, and I had the basics of the game. Also important is changing the Object detection coding, otherwise you'd have to be stood on top of an item to pick it up, which obviously wouldn't look very good! The speech and inventory is optional really, depending on what kind of game you're looking at doing.
I don't know just how familiar you are with DizzyAGE, altho i know you did plan a game last year. i don't know how much you've looked at it since, so i don't know how much you'l remember once you start going with it.
Coding a TLoD-style game is quite different from coding a normal DizzyAGE game, altho ironically once you get used to it, it's actually easier to code all the puzzles, because a lot of the puzzles can be dealt with using a common function (e.g. the skeletons all call the same function, with about 5 or 6 inputs for that function - it's the same for the courtiers, ghosts, etc etc). The way things are picked up, used, dropped etc, the way that the game prioritises what to do when you press the 'action' key, all of these and more are quite a lot different to the normal games, and you may find yourself using functions like DropObjectToUse() a lot more than UseObject(), and therefore you'd be best familarising yourself with what those functions do.
Personally i'd say a good working knowledge of DizzyAGE is advantageous, because there is a lot more delving into the code needed than there would be for a normal game, however that's not to say it's too hard, just that it may be a steep learning curve for you!
I may have gone into all this in a lot more detail than what you wanted, but if you'd like me to be more specific about anything, please ask and i'll be happy to have a go! :smile:
if you mean as is the style used in Valhalla 3: The Fortress of Eve (below), then yes that's possible.
http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/screenshots/full/valhalla_and_the_fortress_of_eve_06.png
http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/screenshots/full/valhalla_and_the_fortress_of_eve_05.png
if however you mean the style used in the likes of Populus (below - sorry, couldn't think of a better example), then no you can't.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Amiga_Populous.png
the reason for this is that the game 'area' has to stay inside a square or rectangular box. it can be any size, as long as it's rectangular. it cannot be diamond-shaped, which rules out the 'populus' style.
The Valhalla 3 style is basically a variation on the top-down style, while allowing it to look more 3Dish. It uses the same type of engine as a top-down game would, just with graphics that make it look sort-of isometric.
if you wanted this style then you could simply adapt the Dizzy Legends: TLoD game pak for your own use.
regarding how i did it, that's a very broad question, and i'll try to answer it as broadly as possible. If you'd like more detail on any of the elements, please ask.
There are a few things here. Firstly, there is a text file in the game folder (when unpaked), that gives a brief lowdown on every new or changed function in the game, compared to the default DizzyAGE game. It won't tell you in detail what each one does or how it does it, but it's a good place to note any changes if you're at all familiar with the DizzyAGE default template.
Secondly, you can break down what has been done differently in TLoD into a few parts. These are basically:
Movement: includes getting him to walk up and down, dealing with the collision detection, turning, etc etc.
Speech: this includes all the code necessary to get him to talk at various points, and also dealing with the dialogue across the bottom of the screen.
Inventory: the inventory is changed from menu-based to HUD-based, and changed to keep gaps in the inventory when you drop items, rather than moving the item below into that space. I suspect the inventory would be less of an issue for you.
Object detection: changes the object detection code from checking behind the character (as in normal Dizzy games), to checking directly in front of the character instead. The code is also adapted and used for the 'examine' function.
Basically the movement part is the key. once i'd managed to get him moving up and down (and colliding properly), stopping the 'gravity' effect, it felt like a lot had been done, and I had the basics of the game. Also important is changing the Object detection coding, otherwise you'd have to be stood on top of an item to pick it up, which obviously wouldn't look very good! The speech and inventory is optional really, depending on what kind of game you're looking at doing.
I don't know just how familiar you are with DizzyAGE, altho i know you did plan a game last year. i don't know how much you've looked at it since, so i don't know how much you'l remember once you start going with it.
Coding a TLoD-style game is quite different from coding a normal DizzyAGE game, altho ironically once you get used to it, it's actually easier to code all the puzzles, because a lot of the puzzles can be dealt with using a common function (e.g. the skeletons all call the same function, with about 5 or 6 inputs for that function - it's the same for the courtiers, ghosts, etc etc). The way things are picked up, used, dropped etc, the way that the game prioritises what to do when you press the 'action' key, all of these and more are quite a lot different to the normal games, and you may find yourself using functions like DropObjectToUse() a lot more than UseObject(), and therefore you'd be best familarising yourself with what those functions do.
Personally i'd say a good working knowledge of DizzyAGE is advantageous, because there is a lot more delving into the code needed than there would be for a normal game, however that's not to say it's too hard, just that it may be a steep learning curve for you!
I may have gone into all this in a lot more detail than what you wanted, but if you'd like me to be more specific about anything, please ask and i'll be happy to have a go! :smile:
Thanks for the great, helpful reply :smile:
Yes I was doing a game for the last easter contest but like a lot of people ambitions where to high, and the real world got in the way, but I've done a lot more in depth coding since then.With the Flash games I did the actual engine did the hard bit, so I'd got lazy I guess, but I went on to coding Flash movies to work with the engine, then the 3D game i posted awhile ago, I got an adventure game system working with a 3rd person character.. thats LUA which isn't far off GS9
it was the Populus view, but yes come to think of it flash uses square rather than diamond-shaped, I never considered that, but I do like Valhalla style, really nice art work and I know thats what my friend was wanting to do :smile:
It'll be a great help being able to look at the game file, Like you say if I worry about getting him moving about first, thats how I did the 3D game, that started out as a character, floor and waypoints
The best thing to do is just try, get him moving and just take one step at a time :smile:
Thanks for the great advice, I'll keep you posted to how things are going :smile:
Yes I was doing a game for the last easter contest but like a lot of people ambitions where to high, and the real world got in the way, but I've done a lot more in depth coding since then.With the Flash games I did the actual engine did the hard bit, so I'd got lazy I guess, but I went on to coding Flash movies to work with the engine, then the 3D game i posted awhile ago, I got an adventure game system working with a 3rd person character.. thats LUA which isn't far off GS9
it was the Populus view, but yes come to think of it flash uses square rather than diamond-shaped, I never considered that, but I do like Valhalla style, really nice art work and I know thats what my friend was wanting to do :smile:
It'll be a great help being able to look at the game file, Like you say if I worry about getting him moving about first, thats how I did the 3D game, that started out as a character, floor and waypoints
The best thing to do is just try, get him moving and just take one step at a time :smile:
Thanks for the great advice, I'll keep you posted to how things are going :smile:
feel free to use coding from TLoD for anything you need. For example all the movement code is handily contained in the movement.gs file. you just have to activate it (in handler.gs and possibly in start.gs or game.gs too)
now, i was thinking about this today, as i don't like saying something isn't possible. i prefer to find a way to make it possible. :smile:
in theory, you could blank out the 4 corners of the screen in the HUD, leaving a triangular screen. You could also make the character move diagonally (altho you wouldn't actually have him moving...). Because of the edge of the room being covered over in the HUD, you would need to move the game map itself to make it scrolling, so that the character never got into the corners (behind the bits of the HUD covering the corners).
now i've thought of a possible way to scroll rooms that i'm going to try and implement whenever i do the next TLoD game. IF it works (and it's a big if), then you could use something similar in an isometric game.
I've not quite thought about any problems regarding collisions etc (with it being isometric), however the bounding box of dizzy doesn't have to be the same size as the dizzy tile (i don't think anyway), so that wouldn't be too much of an issue, you could have him overlapping a tile above, even if it was 'block' (altho there would be no such thing in the game due to the map scrolling - 'block' would simply be an object property.). It's just a case of walking around in an isometric map, and how it would affect stuff like picking items up, actioning objects etc, altho it could probably all be done.
It would be a slight bit of a botch, what with the corners of the room being covered and all that, but providing the map scrolling works without any major probems, i think that it would be do-able, it'd just be incredibly advanced and complex coding.
in theory, you could blank out the 4 corners of the screen in the HUD, leaving a triangular screen. You could also make the character move diagonally (altho you wouldn't actually have him moving...). Because of the edge of the room being covered over in the HUD, you would need to move the game map itself to make it scrolling, so that the character never got into the corners (behind the bits of the HUD covering the corners).
now i've thought of a possible way to scroll rooms that i'm going to try and implement whenever i do the next TLoD game. IF it works (and it's a big if), then you could use something similar in an isometric game.
I've not quite thought about any problems regarding collisions etc (with it being isometric), however the bounding box of dizzy doesn't have to be the same size as the dizzy tile (i don't think anyway), so that wouldn't be too much of an issue, you could have him overlapping a tile above, even if it was 'block' (altho there would be no such thing in the game due to the map scrolling - 'block' would simply be an object property.). It's just a case of walking around in an isometric map, and how it would affect stuff like picking items up, actioning objects etc, altho it could probably all be done.
It would be a slight bit of a botch, what with the corners of the room being covered and all that, but providing the map scrolling works without any major probems, i think that it would be do-able, it'd just be incredibly advanced and complex coding.
Wow
A 3D isometric dizzy game!
Ive said it before - but it never fails to amaze me what a flexible piece of kit the DizzyAGE engine is.
Coupled with the imagination, skill and (lots of) hard work of the developers like Jamie D - it seems that anything really is possible.
Maybe one day we'll even see something completely different like a Dizzy version of streetfighter or Chess or Flight sims or, or, or, or....?
wow, the possibilities seem just endless.... :drool:
.
A 3D isometric dizzy game!
Ive said it before - but it never fails to amaze me what a flexible piece of kit the DizzyAGE engine is.
Coupled with the imagination, skill and (lots of) hard work of the developers like Jamie D - it seems that anything really is possible.
Maybe one day we'll even see something completely different like a Dizzy version of streetfighter or Chess or Flight sims or, or, or, or....?
wow, the possibilities seem just endless.... :drool:
.
Cool! I'll be interesting to see if you can do it, most things are botches that get refined :wink:
I've been playing Legends today, nicely done.. love the voice {dizzy}:cool:
I see what you mean about the changes and new fuctions , I haven't managed to do much, this PC has totally lost sound so Dizzyage croaks because it can't find a sound device {yolkfolk}:scratch: which means I have to fight the wife for the other PC lol.. I rarely win :neutral:
I'm installing a new hard drive tomorrow so hopefully I'll be back on track and I can have a crack at it tomorrow
Thanks for all the advice :smile:
I've been playing Legends today, nicely done.. love the voice {dizzy}:cool:
I see what you mean about the changes and new fuctions , I haven't managed to do much, this PC has totally lost sound so Dizzyage croaks because it can't find a sound device {yolkfolk}:scratch: which means I have to fight the wife for the other PC lol.. I rarely win :neutral:
I'm installing a new hard drive tomorrow so hopefully I'll be back on track and I can have a crack at it tomorrow
Thanks for all the advice :smile:
As long as GS is Turing-complete and has the ability to flush arbitrary pixmaps to the screen then it's possible to make just about any kind of game with it.
The question you have to ask yourself isn't so much whether it can be done, but whether DizzyAGE is the best engine for the job (Does it make it easy to do?).
I don't know enough about it to answer that.
The question you have to ask yourself isn't so much whether it can be done, but whether DizzyAGE is the best engine for the job (Does it make it easy to do?).
I don't know enough about it to answer that.
I can think of quite a few other options, that could do it, Awakening could, in true 3D but the image quality wouldn't be very good, I could do it in Flash, but I'm not likely to get much useful support.. the Flash community is huge but you tend to get useful answers like "do a search" moved, or some wanna be who has read a book once on Qbasic
[quote data-userid="10" data-postid="64251"]
i have no plans - at all, ever - to do an isometric Dizzy game.
The question you have to ask yourself isn’t so much whether it can be done, but whether DizzyAGE is the best engine for the job (Does it make it easy to do?).
I don’t know enough about it to answer that.
[/quote]basically? no, probably not. it was never intended to make isometric games (it may not even be possible), or top-down games for that matter.
the reason i did the top down TLoD game in it was because i knew how to use the game engine, and i like a challenge! :smile:i have no plans - at all, ever - to do an isometric Dizzy game.
[quote data-userid="119" data-postid="64234"]
Dizzyage croaks because it can’t find a sound device {yolkfolk}:scratch:
[/quote]You can disable the sound from setup/ini and play without it, though for TLOD it wouldn't be a good idea :wink:
[quote data-userid="17" data-postid="64368"]
You can disable the sound from setup/ini and play without it, though for TLOD it wouldn’t be a good idea :wink:
[/quote]TLoD is stil playable without the sound, although you don't get the full effect.
The PC I originally tried it on has a dodgy harddrive and one by one system files disappear, the sound went about a month ago, its amazing it still works, I can't install anything that uses the windows installer.. I should really install a new hard drive lol
I've played it on the other PC though, and had a go at the top down view in DizzyAGE, early days
I think everything in the last year with the Lassie engine was things it wasn't supposed to do, its designed as a point and click engine based on the Monkey Island 3 game type controls, i had it doing a Dizzy type game and also Myst style twice
I totally agree the sound is awsome in TLoD and it wouldn't be the same without it, its the best sound in a game I;ve heard for a long time, well done Delta
I've played it on the other PC though, and had a go at the top down view in DizzyAGE, early days
I think everything in the last year with the Lassie engine was things it wasn't supposed to do, its designed as a point and click engine based on the Monkey Island 3 game type controls, i had it doing a Dizzy type game and also Myst style twice
I totally agree the sound is awsome in TLoD and it wouldn't be the same without it, its the best sound in a game I;ve heard for a long time, well done Delta
I've not quite thought about any problems regarding collisions etc (with it being isometric), however the bounding box of dizzy doesn't have to be the same size as the dizzy tile (i don't think anyway), so that wouldn't be too much of an issue
I've just re-read this thread for some reason, and knowing now more than I knew then, my quote above doesn't mention the main problem. You simply can't have a diagonal bounding box for anything (such as the character boundary) in DizzyAGE. These things are drawn by the engine as horizontal and vertical lines, so making a DizzyAGE game where everything was diagonal would, I think, be completely impossible.